[ Irving hadn't really known what to expect when it came to how Jopson might answer his question, least of all this; least of all the depths of torment Jopson had to go through, long after Irving's own suffering had been put to a swift and brutal end. He's not at all glad to have, however unwittingly, forced Jopson to relive even a fraction of that experience, in service of a question that could have been put forth in any number of different, less affecting ways than what Irving had gone with, but he is glad to now have significantly better context for understanding.
He smiles faintly himself, a small, reassuring, closed-mouth curve of his lips, but for now doesn't push Jopson on either subject -- his pain or his happiness -- because now is simply not the time for it. That hadn't occurred to him before, the sheer size and scope of what he'd asked simply presuming they might have a lively back-and-forth about it, but most people are not John Irving, who's always been more the sort of man to have answers ready on a dime for nearly any type of question one might ask of him, because he knew the rules, knew the law, knew what God has had to say on the subject.
That sort of thinking from back in his old life feels like such a luxury now, one that he can no longer afford now that he's here. In his old life Irving was spared having to think too deeply about what it all meant; spared the sorts of darkness that can infect a man's mind while out at sea (or especially out on the ice); spared from lapses in self-control, from temptation, from ever having to interrogate the depths of his own heart and mind which he'd always kept locked away and buried within his own compartmentalized box, so well hidden that not even he would ever find it...
Because he had faith.
And no, not a blind sort of faith, not everything happens for a reason or God would not allow me, you, us to suffer, because Irving certainly knows, contrary to popular belief, that God is not some magical genie who exists to serve the whims of man, to make their lives idyllic and easy; man is meant to work for his rewards (God helps those who help themselves), to suffer, endure, be tested, so that he might later emerge reborn from the deepest, darkest depths of adversity, cleansed and pure and stronger for it.
Irving's faith was like that: something that gave him strength, confidence, the ability to go on each and every day despite steadily increasing obstacles and misfortune, despite hardship after hardship, despite death and disease and starvation following them all like shadows. He did not need to convince himself that they were all certain to be rescued, certain to live, he only needed to not lose hope that they still could; to not give up until the very end.
But Duplicity is different. At least, for him it has been. And the longer he's here, the more it's begun to seem as if he's not simply just part of a minority who feels the way he does about it, but rather almost completely and entirely alone.
Irving's not the sort of man prone to feeling envy, though in him this is, arguably, not always actually the virtuous quality it might sound like it should be, as it means he can't see Jopson's happiness for what it is (a hard won freedom; something to aspire to; his Great Reward), can't see it as something to want for himself, because to let himself truly be happy with a life lived in sin is a compromise that simply seems far too great and final. He would sooner be miserable but with principles than a happy degenerate. ]
I'd only wondered... [ He hesitates, a breath escaping him slowly, then shakes his head. ] I was... curious, if it had always felt that way for you, or if you'd... struggled at all, at the beginning.
[ Jopson is, and has always been, practical. Philosophy and religion are the practice of men beyond him and his responsibilities. So the answer to Irving's queston is, to him, much the same as the last. He laces his fingers together between his knees, drags his bottom lip between his teeth as he thinks of a different way to answer it.
He knows that the most straightforward one is one that Irving isn't going to like, so he'll talk around it if he can. This doesn't need to be another spat. ]
I did struggle. Different from how you are, but you know what I think. The way I understand it, the angels saw fit to make my test different from yours. If this is how we show our quality, I won't presume to know God's mind about it more than I can see for myself. But at the start I was sure all of this temptation was a trick. Of course I was. But what I was seeing didn't match up with what I knew, so I asked questions and I paid attention.
[ He reaches for his device then, goes searching for something. When he finds it, he hands it over to Irving to read at his leisure. ]
No one is punished here for gross indecency, or for adultery, or anything of the like. No one. But you do get punished, really punished, if you push back against how they do things, or if you refuse to take whatever they throw at you. You only get fire and brimstone if you forget your place. I've not forgotten mine. I can't know what the right choices are to find peace, or why the tests are what they are. All I can hope is that I can pass on my stripes alone, at my best. And I don't think I've been anything less than my best for the people who need me.
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Date: 2022-04-12 12:29 am (UTC)He smiles faintly himself, a small, reassuring, closed-mouth curve of his lips, but for now doesn't push Jopson on either subject -- his pain or his happiness -- because now is simply not the time for it. That hadn't occurred to him before, the sheer size and scope of what he'd asked simply presuming they might have a lively back-and-forth about it, but most people are not John Irving, who's always been more the sort of man to have answers ready on a dime for nearly any type of question one might ask of him, because he knew the rules, knew the law, knew what God has had to say on the subject.
That sort of thinking from back in his old life feels like such a luxury now, one that he can no longer afford now that he's here. In his old life Irving was spared having to think too deeply about what it all meant; spared the sorts of darkness that can infect a man's mind while out at sea (or especially out on the ice); spared from lapses in self-control, from temptation, from ever having to interrogate the depths of his own heart and mind which he'd always kept locked away and buried within his own compartmentalized box, so well hidden that not even he would ever find it...
Because he had faith.
And no, not a blind sort of faith, not everything happens for a reason or God would not allow me, you, us to suffer, because Irving certainly knows, contrary to popular belief, that God is not some magical genie who exists to serve the whims of man, to make their lives idyllic and easy; man is meant to work for his rewards (God helps those who help themselves), to suffer, endure, be tested, so that he might later emerge reborn from the deepest, darkest depths of adversity, cleansed and pure and stronger for it.
Irving's faith was like that: something that gave him strength, confidence, the ability to go on each and every day despite steadily increasing obstacles and misfortune, despite hardship after hardship, despite death and disease and starvation following them all like shadows. He did not need to convince himself that they were all certain to be rescued, certain to live, he only needed to not lose hope that they still could; to not give up until the very end.
But Duplicity is different. At least, for him it has been. And the longer he's here, the more it's begun to seem as if he's not simply just part of a minority who feels the way he does about it, but rather almost completely and entirely alone.
Irving's not the sort of man prone to feeling envy, though in him this is, arguably, not always actually the virtuous quality it might sound like it should be, as it means he can't see Jopson's happiness for what it is (a hard won freedom; something to aspire to; his Great Reward), can't see it as something to want for himself, because to let himself truly be happy with a life lived in sin is a compromise that simply seems far too great and final. He would sooner be miserable but with principles than a happy degenerate. ]
I'd only wondered... [ He hesitates, a breath escaping him slowly, then shakes his head. ] I was... curious, if it had always felt that way for you, or if you'd... struggled at all, at the beginning.
[ Like how Irving has been struggling. ]
If perhaps it had to grow on you first.
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Date: 2022-04-28 09:59 pm (UTC)He knows that the most straightforward one is one that Irving isn't going to like, so he'll talk around it if he can. This doesn't need to be another spat. ]
I did struggle. Different from how you are, but you know what I think. The way I understand it, the angels saw fit to make my test different from yours. If this is how we show our quality, I won't presume to know God's mind about it more than I can see for myself. But at the start I was sure all of this temptation was a trick. Of course I was. But what I was seeing didn't match up with what I knew, so I asked questions and I paid attention.
[ He reaches for his device then, goes searching for something. When he finds it, he hands it over to Irving to read at his leisure. ]
No one is punished here for gross indecency, or for adultery, or anything of the like. No one. But you do get punished, really punished, if you push back against how they do things, or if you refuse to take whatever they throw at you. You only get fire and brimstone if you forget your place. I've not forgotten mine. I can't know what the right choices are to find peace, or why the tests are what they are. All I can hope is that I can pass on my stripes alone, at my best. And I don't think I've been anything less than my best for the people who need me.